Bryan Kramer is a world-renowned speaker, coach and author of the book Human to Human teaching businesses to treat people as humans.

Guest Contact Details:

Twitter: @bryankramer

Website: https://bryankramer.com/

Transcript:

Christelle Ballantyne: [00:00:00] Tim, I love the, the llama he keeps

appearing.

Bryan Kramer: Yes. Wow. That was a fun intro.

Tim Lewis: Yes. Well, Brian is probably totally like, why, why is there Lama at the end of the titles? I, we have a long running question on the show about Lamas and Lama Farms and things, which might or may not ask

Bryan Kramer: you, I dunno. As you should. As you should.

Tim Lewis: Anyway, I was trying to build you up to Christelle in the pre-chat or you were waiting. So saying like, not just are you the amazing author of Human to Human and many other great books and the keynotes, Peter, you’ve also. According to your website interview John Grisham, which I found is [00:01:00] amazing. So, but anybody who doesn’t know who you are, what other amazing feats and things have you done or are doing at the moment?

Bryan Kramer: Well, I’m being interviewed by Tim Lewis and Christelle. Yes, welcome. It doesn’t get, it doesn’t get better than that.

Tim Lewis: Yeah. Let’s show, let’s close the show now, right? That’s all done

Christelle Ballantyne: tell us, tell us some of the highlights about your life. Brian. We wanna hear, I especially wanna hear this is new. This is new to me in our audience.

Bryan Kramer: The highlights of my life. Wow. It, it depends on how we define highlight, I guess. So I don’t know. Born and raised in San Jose, California and I was here before Silicon Valley was dubbed Silicon Valley, and it was just actually a farming community.

Mm-hmm. Which makes me feel old. But it really was a nice community [00:02:00] before everyone came in and. And did what they did to my city. And so, you know, I grew up in, in the Orchard orchards, playing in the orchards here. And it was a neat place. You know, we ride our bikes all over the orchards.

There really were you know, fields of cows and cotton fields and or not cotton apple orchards and. All kinds of stuff. And so you know, I’d ride my bike to school through the orchard getting to school. And so that’s the kind of city I grew up in. Even though when I say it and I travel everywhere and I tell them I’m from San Jose or Silicon Valley, they go, oh, okay.

And that’s not actually the case. It really, it was a different city for me until, you know, I graduated high school and, and came back. From college when I came back, that’s when Silicon Valley really started taking off. So, and I came back because you know, not just my family [00:03:00] was here, but the opportunity was here.

Yeah. At that point I knew that. You know, there was gonna be a gold rush, if you will, another one in California. And that ca, that gold rush was really you know, a new, unique thing. And it’s not, not unlike what we’re going through right, right now in this very moment with ai. I think at that time it was silicon chips.

And now look at us. I mean, silicon chips is what keeps us all Yeah. Going. I mean, we can’t do what we do without it. So that’s, I mean, that’s where I’m from. You know, I always had a passion for speaking, and I went to school, got a degree in communications and minor in Japanese. I thought I was gonna go into international business, so I, I literally just saw a sign that said Japanese this way and at, at college, and [00:04:00] I followed the sign and I signed up.

So there’s no great story there. The, as part of that I studied Buddhism and I really enjoyed that. And so then from thereI really created kind of a path through marketing agency work. All my work was in the market marketing agency side work. And so I learned the ropes as every position in every position I probably could.

And. And I, and I really worked my, my butt off to figure out you know, the best way to build a business within a business underneath, their using their money. Building a p and l without. Putting any my money down so that I could create, you know, whatever I needed. So anyway, long story short I left my third, fourth agency job, which was a consulting job.

I had built a, an interactive [00:05:00] company within that company, and we became the top, I think 10 in the Silicon Valley. During the Gold Rush during, you know, internet, the internet boom, which was nice and fun and, and then you know, that company got bought out and I had met my wife at the same time and she and I decided to start an agency and not get married and have a kid on the same two years.

And we’re still married and life is still good, but that was a huge Campbell to do all three at the same time. Glad we did it. And so we had the agency for over now 22 years. It, it’s grown and it’s deflated on purpose. It’s been up to 30. People at 30 million. And we’ve worked with big companies.

We started with local, with construction companies and accounting and grew it up to Netflix and Cisco and MasterCard and I B M and all kinds of great stuff. We did the first I b m, global Influencer Marketing campaign, [00:06:00] demand Gen campaigns. I mean, it just was a ride. It also was a rollercoaster. We’ve hit the lowest of lows in, in all that.

In the midst of all that, I was speaking 200 days a year. I was actually traveling 200 days a year. One of those trips, I think I saw Tim in London. Yeah. That was a really fun trip. Minus, yeah, the moment after I saw Tim and we could tell not it doesn’t matter. But you know, I ended up you know, speaking so much and running the agency that I burned out in the most classic Yeah.

Masterful way. And I was 85 pounds more than this. Right now. I had diabetes. I was really just burning burning, burning, burning. And while on the outside looking in, everybody thought I was doing miraculously on the inside I was not. And so one day I came home and my son, who was 11, pulled me aside [00:07:00] and he pulled me into his room by the hand and he said, dad, we don’t ever see.

You’re never here and you’re missing all my shows at school, my soccer games, and we miss you. And he said, no, by the way, you’re, you know, overweight. He, he used the word fat, so I’m being nice. And he said, you’re you know, and you’re gonna die and not ever get to meet your grandkids. And I was like, geez.

Out of the mouths of babes, you. He was, you know, 11. So speaking like an 11 year old, real, honest, and I really took it to heart. I, I was kind of in tears the next day on, on another plane to my keynote UN unfortunately, and, and I just decided on that plane ride, that last plane ride, that this would be my last plane ride.

That was intent. I would finish out whatever obligations I had, but I wasn’t gonna do this anymore. As much as I did it, I came home and I told my wife I wanted to exit everything. Not our marriage, but everything [00:08:00] else. Yeah. And we did. We exited the agency, we exited, speaking, exited everything. I took a year off.

I lost 85 pounds. I no longer have diabetes, and I spent every day picking my kids up from school and dropping them off and, Living a really good life now. I’m an executive coach. I found my passion, I found my purpose. I get to work with people I love. And I still do marketing, but I do it through showing others how to do it rather than doing it myself and building an agency.

And I just I really enjoy where I’m at in life. It’s just a really good quality life. So that’s my story and I’m sticking to it. Thank you for asking.

Tim Lewis: I feel like, I’m not sure what I could add apart from telling, I was telling Christian the story of like I don’t know if it was the first time I met you in person, but you had a meetup in a pub in.

Bryan Kramer: London. I don’t know if we met at a social media world or not. Were you ever there? Yeah, I’ve been social media. Yeah. I think we met there. Maybe. [00:09:00] I feel like we did. Yeah.

Tim Lewis: But that was very much a Hello Brian? No not a but, so you had a meetup in London and I like, oh. I must have been following you enough to go to the meetup and let’s say that the evening took a weird turn as ended up with you getting involved.

Bar fight basically.

Bryan Kramer: And well, I mean, it wasn’t really like the classic, I guess it was, but you know, it wasn’t like the movies, wasn’t it? No. Right. Somebody came over, asked if we were from the United States. Yeah. And we unfortunately said yes. It was a, the day after our current last president was visiting.

Yeah. And there was high energy and I don’t know what happened. It was just the wrong place at the wrong. And, and I, we said yes, and that person proceeded to dump a beer over my wife’s head. And I, for better or for worse, I lost it. Yeah. And I went after the person [00:10:00] and I probably shouldn’t have, but I did in the night and shining armor moment of trying to think, you know, do what I did.

But, you know, one on eight is not a good odd, so maybe next time I’ll just sit in my. Tell the bartender, Hey, can you take care of that? But I dunno, I think I’d do it again.

Tim Lewis: I’m seeing you fighting now. I wouldn’t, I certainly wouldn’t wanna get into a fight with you. Cause you did. You did. Well, so

Christelle Ballantyne: it’s, it’s hard to say you’re, you’re not American.

And we have, we have such an American accent. You can’t really get by that one. So

Bryan Kramer: yeah, maybe Canada will be my answer though next time.

Christelle Ballantyne: Yeah, people love the Canadians. It’s beautiful. I had someone say when I was visiting England last time well, we prefer the Canadians. And I said, you know, we do too, right?

Yeah. So Tim, I think it’s your turn to ask a question.

Tim Lewis: Yeah, [00:11:00] well actually it isn’t strictly speaking. Well, I dunno. I dunno. Like cuz I didn’t really ask a question then Anyway, behind you, I see you have many items on the shelves, including what looks like a green butter. There’s a hashtag symbol. Oh,

Bryan Kramer: that’s Kermit.

That’s Kermit the Frog? No, on the other side. Oh, this one? That’s Buddha, yeah. Yeah, right here. Yeah.

Tim Lewis: No, I, I can tell Kermit and Buddha apart. Oh, okay. Okay. My religious, my religious tuning is not that far. Yeah. But on the other, this is a whole mirroring thing, so there’s a hashtag symbol, and it looks like two figures in front of it.

What’s, what’s that about? This one?

Bryan Kramer: Yeah. This

Tim Lewis: hashtag. Not the, the giant one, probably next to the Buddha. So,

Bryan Kramer: Oh, next to the Buddha. That’s, yeah. That it’s simply just a hashtag and actually it lights up. It’s kind of neat.

Tim Lewis: Oh, you’ve got two little, I thought the two little figures were part of the [00:12:00] hashtag.

No, so those are,

Bryan Kramer: these are bobbleheads. And I get them from speaking at this particular conference. They make 3D bobbleheads of me. It’s when I had hair before the pandemic. So I’ll be back there. I’ll, I’ll be back in This summer and I’ll have a bald bobblehead. Yes. Oh, you

Tim Lewis: got that. You’ll have the whole set then

Christelle Ballantyne: the whole head.

Oh, it, it lights up. Brian. We’re really nosy. So I also see your Human to human book, and that’s what I wanna ask about next. Great. If we can see anything, we’re gonna ask about it, but this is important, the Human to Human book. Tell us about this. What was your inspiration and tell us about.

Bryan Kramer: So we had already been talking about human to human for more than, I don’t know, 15 years, I guess, at, at pure matter at our agency.

And and it’s just one of those things where [00:13:00] finally the timing hits, you know, excuse me, timing is everything. And and, and that’s what happened. We. Social media landed and it became this big thing, as y’all know. And people were curious about how this was going to affect their companies because this the first time that that there was two-way communication with companies.

You know, before there was billboards, radio and tv and companies could do and say whatever they wanted and you were really. You know, had to listen to whatever their message or their brand had to say. Now all of a sudden, if you had a bad pizza order that day from Domino’s, you could go on Twitter and tell them how much you hated their delivery service.

Mm-hmm. Not the way that, you know, pointing out dominoes. But you know, well, whoever you can really go on and start to have a, a conversation about it. It became a convers. [00:14:00] Life became a conversation. That’s what changed when social media came. We started to have more of a two-way conversation and engagement became a thing.

And and marketing changed forever. So that’s why H2H was so important at the time. And I was giving a keynote at Bloomberg in San Francisco, and it was full of CMO. And, and VPs of marketing. And it was, you know, that the screen came up of, of that almost the same cover of the book. It wasn’t a book yet.

And, and I was talking about it and then I went to the next screen and somebody said, Hey, go back to the last screen. The mc did, and I, and I did, and everyone started taking pictures with me in it, and within 24 hours there was over. 43 million impressions and, and it went just to very [00:15:00] viral in like, I don’t know how many languages, 15 plus languages of people coming at me.

And I couldn’t tell what they were saying cuz there was no translation button in social media yet. And so you know, I proceeded to write the book in the next four days with my wife. She helped me edit it together cuz I’d written about it for two years. I was blogging almost. We, I was blogging weekly about it and thank God it was already a topic I’d written.

So I, we just stitched it together into the book and Self-published it and it became a, a bestseller and, and, Kicked off and started even more speaking like the, it, it created a whirlwind and then eventually it became a TED talk on, on that topic about how about sharing and human to human and and that went viral.

So it was just like one thing after another. It was, it really created a, a neat neat, neat place for for my career and then also for just taking the message out to everybody. [00:16:00]

Tim Lewis: I’ve seen the comments. We have a lot of comments about Kermit. Kermit, I love Kermit, and I’m not entirely Sean. I can’t remember.

That’s a song. I can’t remember seeing the Muppet movie for a while. This

Christelle Ballantyne: is James Is Quo, a song from the the newest Muppet movie?

Tim Lewis: Newest Muppet new one. Ok.

Christelle Ballantyne: Anyway. Gabriel says she loves Kermit. So Kerm, they’re, we have Kermit fans here.

Tim Lewis: We have the Kermit fans. So coming back to what you were saying, it sounds like the whole human, human thing and all the keynote speaking just took off to the extent that you got into this position where you were speaking 270 days a year.

What advice would you, you have given yourself, if you could go back in time to that, Brian, when things are just taken off to try and make it so that you didn’t burn yourself out. What, what lessons do you [00:17:00] think, I mean, and obviously in reality you can’t go back in time and tell yourself, but what would you try if you saw somebody in a very similar position to.

As you were there and what lesson, what, what advice would you give them to avoid burning

Bryan Kramer: out? Oh my God. I work with burnout people every day now. That’s my, yeah, that’s my I guess job, if you will. And it’s don’t get to that point. Yeah. Don’t get to the point where it’s boil. And, and, and there’s very clear signs to see when you’re, you know, I mean, crying is one of ’em, but you know, there there’s very clear signs about burnout and how not to get to that point is.

You know, to really focus in on the things that you love, not the things that you [00:18:00] don’t love to do. A lot of times I just think that we take on everything rather than, you know, our slice of the pie. Yeah. And there’s enough to go around. You don’t have to take on the world in order to be successful.

You can still be successful without burning out. I think there’s a, there’s a real clear. Delineation between that, and not a lot of people believe that, that we, we are, we are just coming out of the hustle culture. I don’t know. I don’t know that we’re out of it. Hmm. Or that it’s gone. But the idea that you have to hustle in order to be, you know, in order to succeed is, is just not true.

It’s just not true. You really can focus in on the right area. Prioritize what’s important and get those things done and, and come to fruition. I I say go slower to go faster, not go faster to go faster. That’s the biggest [00:19:00] thing. And, and when we do go fast, we end up hurting ourselves on some level.

So yeah, maybe you make short-term cash increases, but the long-term damage and the long-term decrease of loss. Whether it is in money or it’s in health or other areas is is worse than the, the steep increase of what you just did. So there is no positive outcome for hustle. I don’t see it. I don’t believe in it and I will argue it to the end of the day.

Tim Lewis: Yeah, we’ve got a load of comments about that. Gabriela claiming that she wasn’t obsessed with. So believer, what’s it like? Brian? Brian’s brilliant. Yeah. Ignore the signs even if you think you’re strong. Yeah, very true. From James, and then a very long comment. I feel like we are coming outta the hustle culture creeping back in.[00:20:00]

Yeah, exactly.

Christelle Ballantyne: Yeah. Brian, we have a, a thing where we ask about, we ask business coaches. We ask marketers a question. Llamas. Tim likes to turn it into my llama farm. But my, my version of the story or question is actually, I make it personal because I happen to work for a small nonprofit that works with a team of four.

We do incredible marketing for having a team of four and doing as much as we. And I have a feeling you might have really good advice for. I know we’re not the only team out there that works and does as much as we can with a team of four two people watching right now. They work for themselves, they’re self-employed.

So what would be your biggest marketing or best marketing advice for those of us who are working with small teams and need to market and get the story out there or get what we’re [00:21:00] doing out

Bryan Kramer: there? First and foremost it’s my, my cousin actually has a farm in Oregon and she has llamas on the farm.

And so I’ve learned that when a llama is angry at another llama, they will stick their tongues out to express their dislike to each other. And so that’s kind of an interesting thing. The other thing is that llamas are native to south south America and female LLAs only have give birth every other year.

So you know, they, they’re real. See, they don’t burn out. They, they’re not a hustle culture. They really understand that giving birth needs time and space. So I’m, I’m just messing around. I I need to throw that in there. But Tim,

Christelle Ballantyne: I mean, I guess we should have asked him the llama question. He’s, he’s the, the

Tim Lewis: one, well, the only, the only difference between is I can get my llama giff out if I did the llama question, but we we’re not.

So [00:22:00] and the only difference was, I, oh, I always used to do this joke that if Christelle was gonna start a Lama farm, what advice would you give her as that in the marketing point of view? But I think she wants you to

Bryan Kramer: ask her, her. Yeah. I’ll answer all. Sorry, hijacked. I totally hijacked. I’m so sorry about that.

…crosstalk..

I saw the llama, I saw Thema.

Christelle Ballantyne: We we’re llama fans around here. We, we need

to know,

Bryan Kramer: so The question is how do, how do four people at a marketing firm do their best work without burning out? Is that right? Four

people who work for a nonprofit or people who are self-employed? We don’t have, we’re not marketers.

We, but we’re doing the marketing Okay. Ourselves, that kind of thing.

Yeah. And the type of nonprofit, just so

Christelle Ballantyne: I, yeah. We’re a literacy organization. Sweet. We help sweet kids fall in love with, with reading. So right here in San Diego. Oh,

Bryan Kramer: oh my gosh. Wow. So I’m kind

Christelle Ballantyne: I’m [00:23:00] closer to you than Tim. Yeah, yeah.

We’re a little bit south of you. So we are a team, right? That focuses our energy on getting kids to read. But we want to reach all of San Diego is with our message, basically. Yeah. So more kids come and read.

Bryan Kramer: Yeah. So you know, there’s a the, the, the key word there is priority. And with the way that the way that I would approach it, the way that I approach all, all things now is really what’s the impact that we want to make.

And by impact we need alignment. Especially in a nonprofit where we’re looking for a number of things. We’re looking for donations. We’re looking for people at the end of the day to to serve a community to serve. And we’re looking. Bo people to to support whether it’s in, in help or or sitting on our board.

[00:24:00] And so those are the key areas and when you focus in those key areas, you want alignment in your impact so that you’re pointed all in the same direction. And even though what you’re doing is clear it’s not always clear to how, you know, let’s say four people are going to establish. They’re marketing, and I think it can be done through an impact and what’s called a stake.

All I can tell you about both the impact statement is how do we create an an outcome or an intention that we can all align with, not a goal, an intention. A goal is, is like we want to give away 5,000 books or get 5,000 people. That’s a goal. An intention is we wanna see literacy go up throughout the, the area of San Diego, and in doing so, we will have increased our membership or [00:25:00] we’ll increase our our, the literacy itself.

And I’m making this up just for all examples sake. You have your own, obviously I ways of establishing this. I’m just giving you a way of looking at it. The impact for that of that intention. And the reason I say intention is because when you set an intention, you’re not, you’re most likely not going to def to, to not reach that intention.

Intentions are off often reached. Goals are often missed. And when we, when we miss a goal, we say that failed. When we, when we set an intention, there is no failure. And we can continue forward. And so I always set intentions. Number two is in, in the impacts statement. It’s really an I believe statement. So how do we all believe that we can impact others?

And, and it’s through an emotion because quite frankly, we all buy emotion. We don’t buy things. [00:26:00] Everybody who goes on Amazon, they’re buying the emotion fr that they’re going to receive from buying that thing on. And, and that car that we just bought gave them an emotion. We’re buying from what gives us the ultimate place that we’re coming from.

So I believe that happy happiness and happiness, I’m making this up. Happiness, solidarity, and an education and, and an educated mind can create more jobs. I don’t know what your outcome is, but, but by doing those things, those emotions, by creating more of those two or three emotions, we can create more, more jobs in the future.

We can create more of something that’s measurable. Now, let’s all follow that. Now let’s all follow what we all believe in and stay together. [00:27:00] That’s the best way for four people to get together in one room and think about this and follow an what’s the impact we want to make in the world. Have that conversation first, and then come back to the strategy and then come back to the tactics and, and does it all relate back to the impact that we’re trying to make?

Impact is not purpose. I know an impact is not a mission. An impact is a timeline for a thing that we want to accomplish, and that’s how we’re gonna accomplish it. So, I could sit here and tell you what ma marketing tactics will work, or I could tell you how to go at it, but all that’s mud at the wall.

When you look at the impact of what you’re trying to do, that’s what’s gonna create cohesiveness and alignment in a small team of four people. Thank you. You’re

Christelle Ballantyne: the first person to talk about this, so this is really good. Thank you.

Tim Lewis: James asking his intention and another word for aim. I, I’m not or are they [00:28:00] different?

I think, well, it might be just a definition

Bryan Kramer: anyway. It, I think it’s, it’s pretty close. Yeah. Yeah. If I understand what he, he or she means by that, sorry, I didn’t catch the name. Oh, James.

Tim Lewis: Yeah. He missed the Christelle watch, you know?

Bryan Kramer: Yeah. So yeah, I think it is. I think where, where you’re appoint. Yeah, where you’re pointed, so, you know, and, and you can do this as a physical exercise, mm-hmm.

As a leader. You know, I know this is kind of be weird on video, but you know, if you point your arm over into the corner top, top corner of your room and then your Yeah, yeah. Top right corner of your room, I’ll give it an, and then you take your other hand and you point it to the lower left corner of the.

You’re, you’re now kind of a teeter-totter, right? Yeah. But what you’re also doing is with your right hand that’s pointed up, you can, you can you’re pointing to [00:29:00] where we’re heading, where the vision is and what the intention is. So now we’re looking at the intention with our back hand. We’re we’re, we are looking back at all of the people that are following, or, or audience, and we’re saying, come.

Let’s do this. Yeah. The reason that I do it that way is and, and it, we embody that is because we have to always keep our eye on the vision, and we always wanna keep our eye on bringing people with us. Yeah. Mm-hmm. When you have, when you miss one or of the other, You can’t keep an organization going.

There always has to be vision. There always has to be a sense of of bringing along of, of coming from the come from, of bringing along. So those are the di dichotomies of the, the aim question that James asked. Yeah.

Christelle Ballantyne: Gabriela says, I love that. Yeah. Both James and [00:30:00] Gabriela are self-employed, so that’s.

Really good for them. I know they’re enjoying this, so thank you, Brian.

Tim Lewis: Okay, I have another question and because you all, your branding is human to human, I think it’s only right. What do you think is the role of AI in marketing? What, what effect do you think AI is gonna have and how much is hype and how much is reality?

Bryan Kramer: It’s not. Yeah. It’s, it’s here. It’s it, yeah. Like I said, it’s, it’s the next it’s the next Silicon Valley. Yeah. I, I really think it is. When, when they took over my orchard, the orchards here this is that very same thing, although this is global. But but this is a next wave. This isn’t crypto, this isn’t blockchain.

Although I think blockchain, Legs, not crypto, but I think blockchain has legs and it’ll be here to stay. And [00:31:00] AI is the, is the next evolution. It’s the thing that’s gonna change everything. And, you know, for me to sit here and make predictions about whose job it’s gonna replace is, is not, I, I could throw darts and tell you what I think, but it, it, it really, you know, the biggest thing that won’t change is is.

Yeah. You know, if you are looking at be excited about this, but be cautiously excited. Yeah. And be, and that’s how I’m looking at it. I’m learning everything I can about it so that I know how to work with it. Because I believe that it’s technology and I always believe that even when I wrote the book of Human to Human, that it’s technology and machines.

Yeah. Not, or not. Or machines. And when we learned to use technology to. Relationships closer together. That’s the point. If we use it to push relationships farther apart, we have not, we missed the [00:32:00] mark. We totally missed the mark. And there’s a lot of companies out there that are using technology to try to automate relationships.

Yeah. And they’re going, they’re either failing or going to fail. And it is not what creates an emotional experience when we. When we buy something, we buy it because we know, like, and trusts someone who told us about something or of the emotion it gives us to purchase that, as I said before. So if AI comes into place, we’re going to that, that will not be the case.

You have to, you have to look at both sides. Yeah.

Christelle Ballantyne: Gabriela has a comment. The actual tech isn’t evil, bad, or whatever. It’s always how we. Thank you. Thank you Gabriela. Totally. Brian, we’re coming to an end and I wanna ask you where all of our friends can find you, how they can hire you, where, where can they find you?

Where are you?

Bryan Kramer: Thank you. You guys are, you guys are awesome. I really enjoyed this and, and [00:33:00] And the llama was the, the just the cherry on top. I’m at Brian. There it is. Oh man, that is so cool. I’m at brian kramer.com. B r y Brian with a y, Kramer with a K. Funny enough I said that all the time cuz my name gets misspelled and I was at my dad’s house in Phoenix the other week and I said that to him cuz he is filling something out and he looks at me.

Brian, I named you. So I’m like, oh yeah. I just, I’m just so used to saying it to everybody. It just, so anyway, Brian with the y kram of the k dot com. If you sign up for my newsletter I it’s a, it’s just one thought, like, just like what we talk about now. I, I just do a thought once every two weeks.

It’s a deep thought, if you will not jack handy, but it’s a deep thought and, and. About this kind of to these kinds of topics. And I reply to every email, so if you hit reply and, and have a thought, please do. I love [00:34:00] it that I wouldn’t be h t h if I didn’t see that. And yeah, everything’s there. So all my social media’s at Brian Kramer.

Christelle Ballantyne: Awesome. Can you, Brian, leave us with one thought then?

Bryan Kramer: Sure. I can think I can definitely do that. I, you know, the one thought if you take anything away from everything that I’ve said, Is that being human is your actual competitive advantage. Yeah. If you want to stand out be hu. Be more. At a time when everyone’s automating, using technology, creating things with ai stand out with, with things that people aren’t doing by being more human.

You know, when was the last time that you wrote a, an handwritten thank you note or received one or sent something in the mail or or just told, picked up the phone. And actually, I know it’s, it’s strange to use those iPhones and hand Android. Phones, but use them as a phone. You know, the kinds of things that you [00:35:00] would think, think about 10, 20 years ago are actually back in style if you want to stand out.

And so use those things to your benefit and you’ll see people actually connect in deeper with you and your brand.

Tim Lewis: Well, it’s been great to have you on the show, and it’s great to have all these people commenting, which There’s a few more. I’m not entire sure what Gabriela’s saying yes to, but she’s saying yes to something you said.

So you’ve, I’ve clearly done well there. And thank you so much for being a guest on the show, Brian.

Christelle Ballantyne: Thank you, Brian. This was great. Really fun having you.

Bryan Kramer: Thank you guys for having me. I really appreciate it. And, and guys, I should say, guys and ladies so I, I really appreciate you too. Tim, it is always good to see you when we’re not, not in the middle of a bar.

Fight, Christelle. We

Tim Lewis: both fighting each other by the way, [00:36:00]

Bryan Kramer: we’re on the same side. And Christelle, I, I’m so excited to, to meet you here one day in person since we’re both in the same.

Christelle Ballantyne: That would be amazing. I’m at Social Media Marketing World every once in a while when I can be there, but Great. James, James and Gabriela, thanks for chatting with us.

James says, thank you. Great interview. Thank you everybody. We look forward to actually three weeks from now is when we’ll be back.

Tim Lewis: Yeah, cuz I’m, I’m, I’m doing another visit at the States. I’m gonna visit another six states in the States. I shouldn’t, I shouldn’t use the word states, I’m not sure, but Yeah,

Bryan Kramer: no, that’s right.

Thank you. That, that would be fun. Let us know when you’re.

Tim Lewis: Yeah, well, I’m not, I’m not actually getting to the West Coast system maybe later on in the year, but I think the furthest west I’m getting is Rapid City or maybe Dallas. Dallas Airport. So you could drive to Thunder Airport and we can meet if you like, but I think that’s

Bryan Kramer: it.

I could and I won’t,

Christelle Ballantyne: to [00:37:00] a California meetup next time you’re here. Probably mid-state, perhaps all. Bye everyone. Thank you. So

Bryan Kramer: this is what God requires.